Good day ladies and gentlemen and welcome to No parking: Accessible parking requirements and enforcement conference call. At this time all participants are in a listen only mode. Later we will conduct a question-and-answer session and instructions will be given at that time. If anyone should require audio assistance during the conference please press star then 0 to reach an operator. I would like to turn the call over to Peter Berg.
Alright, thank you very much Jaime and good afternoon to everyone across the country joining us on this lovely June day, depending on where you are. Here in the Midwest we are suffering under some extreme heat. As always the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) audio conference is a project of the ADA National Network and is coordinated by the Great Lakes ADA center. The ADA National Network is funded by the U.S. Department of Education, National Institute on Disability Rehabilitation and Research. As Jamie mentioned, today''s session is being recorded and at the end of today''s presentation I will provide with you information of how the archive of today''s session can be accessed. We have folks joining us today via the telephone and also via an online webinar platform. For those of that are participating through the webinar platform, just going to go over a couple of features of the webinar platform. Captioning is being provided through the online platform and you can click on the captioning icon at the top of the window and you can size the captioning window to fit your particular needs. Key stroke function control F8 will also open up the captioning feature. The view within the webinar room can be customized by selecting view from the dropdown menu and that allows you to pick the view that you would like. And also in the webinar room if you are having any problems with the sound quality you can go to the tools menu and select audio and then run the audio wizard setup and that will help you configure your speakers for the session. For those of you in the webinar platform you can ask questions in the chat area. You can simply type them in there. For those of you using the keyboard to navigate the system, control M puts you in the chat area to ask questions. For those participants on telephone we will have two different question-and-answer sessions during today''s presentation. And for those of you on telephone we will bring Jamie in to give instructions on how you can ask questions. For those of you in the webinar room you can submit your questions throughout the session and those questions will be read aloud to our presenter today. And then finally for those of you in the webinar platform we please ask you to refrain from using the emotion icons within the webinar room unless instructed to do so by the presenter. They prove to be distracting to the speaker as well as other participants in the webinar room. All right. That''s enough of me. You have all joined us today to hear from Nancy Horton. Nancy Horton is an information specialist with the Mid Atlantic ADA Center and also part of the ADA National Network. You can view Nancy''s full bio on the ADA-audio.org website. So with that, I will go ahead and turn it over to Nancy. Go ahead Nancy.
Thank you Peter and thank you everyone for joining us. Welcome. As you know we are going to talk about parking today. Accessible parking requirements and enforcement. So we are going to jump right in to our topic because we have a lot to talk about. On slide number 5 today''s agenda we are going to start off and talk about a little bit about the ADA itself, give you a brief overview of the ADA and its titles. We are going to talk about how the ADA applies to different entities and how it covers new construction, alterations, and existing facilities. We are going to talk a little bit about the new 2010 ADA standards, and how we use those in these activities. We are going to talk a little bit about enforcement, both ADA enforcement as well as enforcement activities on a state and local level which are very relevant to parking and various parking issues. And as Peter said we will have a couple of breaks throughout our presentation to allow for questions. And when we stop at the end we are hopeful we will have time for questions there as well. So we are going to jump right in here and on slide number 6, we are going to start by talking just a little bit about Title II. We are going to circle back to Title I and touch on that but I want to start off with Title II and Title III. Title II as many of you know applies to state and local governments, and just about everything they do. State and local government must comply with ADA standards for new construction and for alterations. Additionally, they must ensure access to programs, services and activities that they offer in existing facilities. This is what is known as program access. A program has to be accessible when viewed in its entirety. You look at a program very broadly and a variety of factors need to be considered. And a variety of approaches can be used to achieve meaningful access and participation for people with disabilities. But structural improvements are often necessary to achieve that. Now Title III on our next slide, number 7, applies to public accommodations and commercial facilities. Now both of these types of entities must comply with ADA standards when they do new construction projects or alterations. Public accommodations also have an obligation to remove barriers in existing facilities where it is readily achievable to do so. So where it is doable, cheap and easy. They are supposed to remove barriers in existing facilities. Commercial facilities on the other hand, are not subject to any requirements related to existing facilities that are not being altered. That are not undergoing a planned alteration. So these two types of entities have different requirements but what is the difference between a public accommodation and a commercial facility? What are these things? On slide number 8 public accommodations are private entities that own, operate, lease or lease to a place of public accommodation. So you will notice that owners, operators, landlords and tenants are equally covered by this part of the ADA. There are some entities private entities that are exempt from Title III and these exemptions can be important as well. Religious entities are very broadly exempt from Title III. Anything that a religious entity does is exempt from Title III and religious entities often do a lot of things that look just like public accommodations. They operate daycare centers, and shelters all kinds of social service establishments and things, schools but if these things are controlled by religious entities they are exempt from Title III. Also bona fide private membership clubs are exempt from Title III but their exemption is lost to any extent that they open up to the general public. And these private membership clubs they have to be bona fide. It is not just based on what they are called. It is not just the country club, or the tennis club, or the golf club, are not automatically considered private membership clubs. Some things have names like this but they are really open to the general public. Theres nothing really exclusive about them. Anybody can join and those kinds of things would be covered by Title III. So there are some exemptions and those are important. It is important to note also that these exempt organizations very typically are covered under state or local building codes. So when they do new construction projects or alterations they very often are subject to building codes even though they are exempt from Title III which is much broader than building codes. So what about these private entities that own, operate, lease or lease to these places. What are these places that are covered by Title III. On our next slide, number 9, this is a list of the 12 types of places of public accommodations. There are only 12 types, only these 12 types. Within each category there are many, many examples. But only these 12 types. Places of lodging, places that serve food or drink, places of exhibition or entertainment, like theaters and stadiums, places of public gathering like convention centers, sales or rental establishments, obviously this is a big category. All types of stores that sell and rent things. Service establishment, another big category that includes dry cleaners and banks and repair shops of all kinds, funeral parlors, offices of health care providers, offices of attorneys, all kinds of examples of service establishments. Public transportation terminals other than airports. Not airports, but bus stations, train stations. Places of public display or collection. Like a museum or a library that is private. Places of recreation. Places of education. These would be private schools at all levels, colleges, preschools, what have you. Social service establishments, these would be things like shelters and adoption agencies, food banks things of this nature. And places of exercise and recreation, fitness centers, bowling alleys. So there are lots of examples in all of these categories. Those are the types of public accommodations. Now commercial facilities on our next slide. What are commercial facilities? They are not places that are either covered or exempt under the Fair Housing Act. They are not aircrafts. They are not rail cars. So what are they? Some examples of what commercial facilities are are factories or warehouses that are not open to customers or the general public. Those are commercial facilities. So these are the entities remember that have to comply with standards when they engage in new construction or alterations but have no obligation to improve accessibility in existing facilities, that are not undergoing a planned alteration. On slide 11, I want to just touch on Title I for a moment. I said we would circle back to this. Because the ADA covers a lot of employment situations, a lot of employers and this is important, too and sometimes comes in to play with the accessible parking. The ADA and Title I doesn''t have any requirement that applies to covered employers that are for new construction or alteration. There is nothing about construction or alterations in Title I. Now keep in mind that employers may have obligations under other titles of the ADA or other laws. They may be subject to requirements when they build or when they alter facilities. But under the ADA covered employers are obligated to provide individualized reasonable accommodations to workers. So sometimes this can come in to play when it comes to parking. So, for example, if an employer is covered under Title II or Title III they build a new parking lot or parking garage or they alter one, they are going to be subject to the ADA standards. On the other hand, for example, a religious entity which is not covered by Title II or Title III but if it employs at least 15 workers it is covered by Title I as an employer and it has an obligation to reasonably accommodate workers with disabilities. Or perhaps a private entity with at least 15 workers that operates a commercial facility in an existing structure where there is no obligation to generally remove barriers. They may have an obligation to create an accessible parking space or reserve a parking space for an individual worker. And in the employment context because reasonable accommodations are individualized sometimes you will see parking spaces that don''t comply with standards. They don''t look like the kind of space you see in public area, like at the mall or at a store or something because they are designed to meet an individual person''s needs. If an employer that''s covered by Title II or Title III has an employee only parking lot, they are going to have the minimum number of required accessible parking spaces that look like, you know, regular accessible parking spaces. They are going to meet standards but sometimes they may have additional spaces that they will provide in addition to that minimum number required, to accommodate individual workers and they may be spaces that are simply near an entrance or otherwise designed to meet an individual need. So it is important to remember that about the ADA. So those are -- that''s kind of a quick jog through the titles of the ADA. And I want to pause for a moment and see if we have any questions so far about the basics of the ADA.
Ladies and gentlemen if you have a question at this time please press the star key and then the 1 key on your touch tone telephone.
Jamie we are also getting a little feedback there, I dont know if you can check on that, a little static. I don''t know if that''s coming from Nancy''s line. While we wait to see if anyone has any questions on the telephone, I see one question that was submitted Nancy by someone in the webinar room and if you could just clarify again about religious entities and the exemption under Title III as a place of public accommodation.
Yes. I mean religious entities again are very, very broadly exempt from Title III. They are just not covered by Title III. No matter what they do, no matter if they open up the things they do to the general public, for instance, let''s say a religious entity operates a daycare center. It looks just like any other private business daycare center. It is open to the general public. You don''t have to belong to the religious entities, congregation or anything to bring your child there. You bring your child there and you pay. But if it is controlled by that religious entity it is exempt from Title III. The exemption for religious entities is very, very broad.
Okay. Yeah, I think that''s -- Nancy sometimes where there is some confusion that religious entities do operate on the face of it what looks like a place of public accommodation but if it is openly controlled by the religious entity it is exempt. Jamie do we have a question on the telephone?
We do have two questions. The first question comes from Caller 1. CALLER 1: Hi Peter and Nancy, I have got a question about a public accommodation that shares an employee and public parking area. Does that impact a number of parking spaces that is required for the public if you are providing accessible parking for an employee with a disability?
Um, possibly. Generally no. I mean if you provide one lot and you allow both your employees and your customers to park there, and it is not a medical facility or some type of facility that requires different kind of scoping, and we will talk a little bit more about that in a few minutes, but you are just going to provide the basic minimum number of accessible spaces that are required. Based on the total number of spaces in that lot. The only thing is that with employment if you are covered as an employer, then you may need to provide additional accessible spaces if your lot isn''t meeting the needs of your employees. If you, you know, if your spaces are always full, you know your employees come to work and they can''t get in to work because they can''t park. Then you may need to designate an extra space or two and you might need to reserve them for particular individual workers. But that doesn''t always happen. Sometimes your minimum number meets the needs of your population both your customers and your employees and, you know, you are fine. Caller 1: Yeah, that was a concern that I had was that if you have got a situation where the -- obviously the employees come to work before the building is open for the public, if you have got, you know, one parking space that''s van accessible, it is required for the lot size and the employee has a disability and he or she is using that one spot, then you have no spots available to the public.
Uh-huh. Yes. And that could happen and as a business person you certainly might want to create a spot for the employee so that you will have your spot available for your customer so that you don''t lose your customer because they can''t get in. But where you have a mixed lot, it is not designated separate lots or separate spaces for employees versus customers, sometimes you do have to do things a little bit differently to make sure that you meet the needs of your population.
Right, [Caller 1] thanks for your question. Nancy I am going to [inaudible] in real quick on the question that was submitted in the chat area. What if you have a designated area? So you have customer only parking and all employees are required to park in a separate area. Would an employer be required to allow an employee to park in the customer only area when all other employees are prohibited from parking in that area and must park in the employee only area?
Possibly because what sometimes happens and that may be the case here, is some employers in certain settings will have their employees park far away and maybe even a remote lot or garage or some place that''s far away from the facility itself. And so you may have a worker with a disability that needs to be near accessible places, I mean need to be near the entrance. Near the facility. So that can become an issue. I don''t recommend that you take away a spot that''s intended for your customer population and give it to your employee. I think it makes more sense to designate an additional space in that customer area. So that you don''t -- you are not taking away the spaces that really should belong to the customer. I mean whenever you have separate lots and one is remote, you are allowed to locate the accessible spaces that would be required in that lot, in the lot that''s close to the facility. Sometimes that''s called clustering. We are going to talk a little bit more about these issues and scoping in general in our next segment here. But generally yes, you would definitely need to consider an individual request as an employer if your employees generally park half a mile away and you have got a worker that can''t do that kind of a distance.
Jamie why don''t we take one more question on the phone and Nancy will go ahead and move forward with the rest and save time for questions at the end.
Our next question comes from Caller 2. CALLER 2: Hello.
Go ahead with your question. CALLER 2: You had answered our question already. Thank you.
All right. You did well Nancy. You are answering questions without even knowing. Why don''t you go ahead and continue with the presentation and then we will have take to take up the rest of the questions at the end.
Okay. Great. Let me just say one thing before I do move on because we did have a question about religious entities and I just wanted to point people to what I think is a great resource on that issue because this not something new but its an oldie but a goody. The Department of Justice has a technical assistance manual on Title III, you can find it on their website at ADA.gov, and they have a whole section in there, in their Title III Technical Assistance Manual about the exemption for religious entities and it explains in very nice, straight forward plain English the breadth of the exemption for religious entities and gives examples and so forth. So that''s a nice authoritative explanation of that exemption if anybody would like to go look at that. So moving on I want to talk a little bit about the new 2010 ADA standards. They apply to new construction. They apply to additions and planned alterations where covered entities need to meet those standards to the maximum extent feasible and they are also used as a sort of yardstick to measure compliance with the barrier removal obligations under Title III and the program access obligations under Title II. So if you have got existing facilities and you want to kind of assess where you stand with compliance in relation to accessibility, you are going to look at these standards to kind of measure that. There is in the new standards because they are new and it is a revision, there is what is known as the safe harbor. There is a safe harbor for spaces or elements that comply with the old standards, 1991 standards. So if you have got an element, a space, a parking space that complies with the 1991 standards or parking lot facility, then that''s okay for now. That''s okay until such time as that facility or that element undergoes a planned alteration. And at that time you will bring that element or that facility in to alignment with the new standards to the maximum extent feasible. But you don''t have to go around and, for instance, change all your parking lots or all your accessible parking spaces right now if they comply with 1991 standards. On slide 14 you will see a table of the scope, the basic scoping table for accessible parking. This is in Section 208 in the new 2010 standards. And all these scoping provisions that we are going to be talking about here for the next several slides are all found in Section 208. These basic scoping provisions essentially haven''t changed since the 1991 standards. These are basically the same. You have a lot or a facility with between 1 and 25 spaces, you need one accessible space. The table goes on. This is no different from what we have been used to. But again one of the important things about this basic scoping is that you need to figure this out based on each separate parking facility. Each separate lot, each separate garage needs to be scoped separately. Now you may in some instances like we touched on a moment ago you may take the accessible spaces that are required in one lot and locate them in another lot because of convenience or existence or other issues where it makes more sense to put those accessible spaces in a different lot because it is near the facility. Then that''s usually the factor. Because accessible spaces need to be as near as possible to the accessible entrance or entrances of the facility that they serve. An important thing about doing that is you need to make sure that you scope each lot separately. You scope each lot and then you add together the numbers of accessible spaces that are required in each lot, not the other way around. We don''t add the total spaces in each lot and then scope that total number. You scope each lot separately and then move those accessible spaces and add them to that other lot if it needs to be done that way for the sake of distance and so forth. On the other hand, sometimes you have sites where you have multiple lots, multiple parking facilities that they are serving multiple buildings or multiple entrances. Like a big mall or a college campus. In that case you do want to make sure that your accessible parking spaces are dispersed so that they serve the different buildings. On our next slide number 15, there are some additional scoping requirements for certain types of medical facilities. Hospital outpatient facilities and these are facilities that are actually located within hospitals or hospital complexes. They are part of a hospital. Parking that serves both facilities need to provide 10 percent of patients and visitor parking accessible. Note that this is only patient and visitor parking, it doesnt apply to any parking facility or portion of a parking facility thats designated for employees. And then rehabilitation facilities that specialize in treating conditions that affect mobility and outpatient physical therapy facilities need to provide 20 percent of their patient visitor parking to be accessible. So these are very specific types of facilities that need more accessible parking. Now on slide 16 we have and this is new in the 2010 standards, we have some scoping provisions for residential facilities because in the 2010 standards we now have provisions for residential facilities which we didn''t have before. We need to keep in mind that these requirements are going to only apply where the ADA applies. And the ADA doesn''t apply to private residential facilities as many of you know. The residential facilities are not one of the 12 types of places of public accommodation. They are not commercial facilities. They don''t come under the ADA. So -- but because the coverage under Title II state and local government is much broader housing that is provided by state and local government is going to be subject to the ADA. The private residential facilities are only going to be covered by Title III if they also meet the definition of one of the 12 types of places of public accommodation. An example of that would be an assisted living facility, which is a residential facility. But where the residents also receive social services, health care services, they may receive meals and personal assistance services, transportation, for example. So that makes it a social service center establishment in addition to being a residential facility. So we have these new requirements in the standards where we have parking for residents. And where we have at least one parking space that''s provided specifically for each dwelling unit at least one accessible space is required for each of the mobility accessible dwelling units that''s provided. If more than one parking space is provided per dwelling unit, then an additional 2 percent of the spaces that are not the spaces we just talked about in the first provision, 2 percent of the additional spaces need to also be accessible. And those spaces are going to be dispersed throughout whatever types of parking is provided for residents. Where they are per unit at least each one for the mobility dwelling unit, more than one per unit, and an additional 2 percent need to be provided dispersed. Parking that''s not for residents, parking that may be for visitors or employees or customers coming to the rental office or what have you, those are going to followl the basic scoping requirements that we just talked about. Now we have some -- we have a big change in the scoping provisions in the new standards for van accessible spaces. In the old 1991 standards we need one out of every eight accessible spaces to be van accessible. In the new 2010 standards we need one out of every six or a fraction of six accessible spaces to be van accessible. So this is a big change. This is an increase in scoping requirement for van accessible spaces. There is also a new exemption on slide 18 in the new standards. Any parking spaces that are used exclusively for buses, trucks, other delivery vehicles, law enforcement vehicles or vehicular impound are not required to include accessible spaces as long as any lot that needs to be accessed by the public like, for instance, where you go to retrieve your vehicle from impound, those lots need to provide an accessible passenger loading zone so that folks can at least get there. And get to it. We also have another change on our next slide, number 19, in the old standards there was an exception for valet parking facilities, accessible parking spaces were not required in those facilities. But in the new standard there is no such exception. So valet parking facilities do need to provide accessible spaces according to the building provisions. And this is basically so that people who have customized vehicles that may be difficult for a valet to drive and park will have the option of being able to park their own vehicle and have an accessible space to do that. We also have some new provisions in the new standards related to signs. Signs that are required to designate accessible parking spaces, these are basically exemptions that are new. And note the section number here which is 216.5. These exemptions are in the scoping provisions for signs, not for parking. They are in the sign section, not the parking section. Signs are not required for accessible parking spaces on a site that has four or fewer total parking spaces including accessible spaces. So if you have got a really small little business that only have one or two or three or four total parking spaces, they still have to have the accessible space. They still have to designate, mark it as meet all the specifications. It just doesn''t have to have a sign. So anybody can park there. You are not going to have to have a permit to be able to park in that space. Anybody is going to be able to park there in most jurisdictions. Also signs are not required at residential facilities where the parking spaces are assigned to specific dwelling units. The idea here is that if the space is for specific unit, it is already reserved in a sense, you don''t need to put up a sign saying that it is accessible space. So those are some new provisions also in the new standards. Now we are going to move on to -- we are up to slide 21, and talk about the technical specifications for accessible parking spaces and these you are going to find in Section 502 in the new 2010 standards. And there''s a big change here as well. In the old standards a van accessible space had a wider aisle. A wider access aisle adjacent to the space. In the new standards the space is wider instead of the aisle. The van space is wider. The total amount of space that''s devoted to a single van accessible space is the same. It is a 192 inches or 16 feet. It is just a different configuration. So now all the accessible spaces are going to have the five foot access aisle. But the van space is going to be wider. The standard accessible space is going to be the same as it was before. And, you know, the idea here at least part of the idea is that this will help with enforcement activity for one. It makes the aisle for a van space not be the same size as the space. We hope that''s going to reduce the likelihood that people will park on the aisle, in the aisle because it looks just like a space. So that''s a new configuration. Now the old configuration still allowed as an exception in the new standards but that new configuration is a preferred requirement in the new standard. There are also on the next slide, number 22 some new requirements related to the access aisles themselves. Access aisles must be marked to discourage parking in them. The standards don''t specify how they need to be marked, it just says they have to be marked. The aisle must not overlap the vehicular way. It must connect to an accessible route obviously so people can get where they are going from the parking space. If the accessible route itself crosses a vehicular way, marked crosswalks are recommended, not required but recommended for safety. Also designs that don''t require people to travel behind parked vehicles to get where they are going are preferred but again not required under the ADA standards. And another new provision in the new standards is that angled van accessible parking spaces must provide the access aisle on the passenger side of the vehicle. And this is only for angled van spaces. Angled standard accessible parking spaces can provide the aisle on either side. But the van space if it is angled it needs to be on the passenger side. And in some applications angled spaces can be a good option. For instance, where you have on-street parking sometimes you will see angled spaces in an on-street parking situation which sometimes enables folks to get an access aisle on an accessible space as opposed to a parallel aisle parking which sometimes doesn''t give you the best accessibility. So that''s a new requirement. We also have on our next slide a new specification for the height of the signs on the parking spaces. We didn''t have this before. It is 60 inches minimum. Measured to the bottom of the signs. Some state codes had-- the model codes had this requirement before, now it is in the ADA standards as well. I also want to touch on a requirement that is in the ADA itself in the regulations, not in the standards but in the regulations for Title II and Title III. There is a requirement that features of accessibility be maintained. Any feature of accessibility that''s required is also required to be maintained. And when you are talking about exterior features, especially like parking facilities, you really need to be vigilant about maintenance. We have got weather conditions. We have got fluctuating temperatures that can cause cracking and buckling and shifting, signs fade, they corrode, they get knocked down and we have snow and falling leaves, we have debris. We have a lot of conditions in the outdoor environment that really require, you know, vigilance to make sure that accessible features like parking spaces, access aisles, the accessible routes, so where people are going, are maintained so that they are useable, so that they are available for the purpose that they are there for. Now there is a new provision in the new regulations that stipulates that where the new requirements reduce or eliminate a feature, then you can reduce or eliminate that maintenance to go along with that. An example of that would be this new requirement where you don''t have to have a sign on an accessible parking space at a facility that has four or fewer total spaces. If you have got a facility like that, now you don''t need the sign there and once your sign is faded and falls over you don''t have to replace that. You don''t have to maintain it because it is no longer required. So if your state or local codes and ordinances don''t require you to have that sign there and be aware of that, then you can discontinue that maintenance. Maintenance is important and that''s a provision that you find in the regulations themselves. So I want to pause here again and see if we have any questions about the scoping provisions, or the technical specifications.
Ladies and gentlemen to ask a question please press star 1.
Nancy while we are waiting for questions, get the ones submitted in the chat area and a question about lots that have four or fewer spaces and asking whether or not the ADA requires that the universal symbol of accessibility be painted on the parking space.
It does not. The ADA requires that the sign include the international symbol of accessibility and that''s about all the ADA standards have to say about the sign. It needs to include that symbol and, of course, it needs to be at that 60 inches minimum, above the grade there. So on the ground doesn''t meet that requirement. The ADA doesn''t prohibit that. Some state or local codes require it. And that''s fine and a lot of people like it. They feel like it adds a real, you know, bit of visibility to the signage for the space. But it is not required by the ADA and if you use it needs to be in addition to the above grade sign.
All right. Great. Jamie, do we have any questions on the telephone?
Yes, the first question comes Caller 3. CALLER 3: Hi. My name is actually [caller name]. My question is: are there any requirements for accessible parking for businesses that only have street side or curb parking?
Well, it really depends on whose parking the street parking is. If the street, it really belongs not to the store, not to the, you know, but to the town, or the -- a public entity, then the private entity really has no -- they don''t have any parking. It is not their parking. So they don''t really have any obligation because it is not their lot. The requirements like a lot of the requirements in the ADA, particularly in the standards, it is kind of based on if. It is based on what you provide. There is nothing in the ADA that says that an entity covered under Title III, for instance, has to provide parking. What it says is if you provide parking, then you must ensure that, you know, some of it is accessible. But it doesn''t require that you provide parking. And there are a lot of places that don''t provide parking. People just have to find public parking on the street, in a garage, what have you. And that''s just the way that is. So if that''s the case there, then what you are really looking at is: whose parking is it and is that parking correct? Does that help? CALLER 3: Yes.
All right. Thanks for the question Jamie. Do we have another question on the telephone?
The next question comes from Caller 4. CALLER 4: [Caller name] will be asking the question for our group. CALLER 4: I have several but I am going to ask one near and dear to me. In our town we have on-street parking, the city maintains the parking spaces and there is a contract company the city has that issues the parking violations. I parked in one of these parking spaces and the space itself was accessible to me. I was able to get out of my van. But when I went to the meter, the meter itself was not accessible. The part that was not accessible is on the side that I could access there was no writing, no place to put money in, no anything. It was just a blank. They came up and gave me a ticket while I was trying to figure out what to do there and said well, you can''t park here. It says on the meter that you can''t park there. Im like, it is not on my side. She said well, if you come out here and get in the road, if you stand in the road you can see it and in order to use it you have to be in the road. So in order to use it I would have had to park in the road, get out, read the thing and then put the money in, and then park. Does the city have to have accessible meters when the parking space is accessible by all means. It doesn''t say it is wheelchair accessible but all other standards I was able to park there and get in and out. It also doesn''t say it is accessible or not accessible. That''s all.
Okay. That''s a great question and I hope that I followed it. But parking meters and accessibility of parking meters is a huge issue for a number of reasons. There is a lot of issues around parking meters. I mean obviously you can charge people with disabilities for accessible parking if you charge everybody else for parking in a particular parking facility. However, you know, you have got to provide an accessible way for people to pay. So some localities or states have tried to address this issue. Some with more success than others. Arranging everything from just saying well, you know, people who park in accessible spaces just don''t have to pay even though there is a meter there. Just don''t pay, don''t worry about it we are not going to enforce it. Ranging to, you know, attempt to make sure that accessible meters are installed in accessible locations. So there are a lot of issues around that. But if it is an accessible space, parking space, and you have to pay for it, however you pay for it, has got to be accessible. We get a lot of calls in our center saying I am looking for the parking meter section in the ADA standards and I can''t find it. That''s because it is not there. There is no section on parking meters. There are sections, of course, on basic, you know, requirements that could relate to a parking meter just like any other control or operating mechanism, something you have to approach, get to, get at. Reach. Operate. See. There are standards that could relate to that. But it is a good question because it is a big issue. I mean all I can say is generally a city is covered by Title II. So everything they do needs to be accessible. And they need to figure out how to do that. And there is a lot of ways to do that. They can replace meters. They can move meters, they can take them away, they can establish policies to deal with it from the enforcement side. And make sure that all their staff are trained and informed. And they can undertake assessment projects to go around to every meter and figure out what the problems are. It is really a huge issue. I don''t know that we are going to be able to address it adequately. But it is a big issue.
Yep. And a lot of places Nancy, states and municipalities, like you said, have adopted policies or ordinances or statutes that exempt someone with a parking placard or a license plate from having to pay the parking meter is a way they deal with if their meters themselves are inaccessible to persons with disabilities. And even in some states, the state of Illinois recently developed a two tier system still exempting individuals who because of a disability can''t access the parking meter are still exempt, while other individuals who qualify for the parking placard because they meet the requirements under the state law but can still pay the parking meter must in the future will have to pay the parking meter. Nancy, we got a few questions here in the chat room and hopefully you can clarify for folks. Slide 6 and explain the application of the 2010 standards to residence, what residential housing you are talking about when we talk about application of the ADA versus I think a lot of the questions that are coming in the chat area are questions that would fall under the Fair Housing Act and not under the ADA.
OK, sure. And it is a good question and there is a lot of confusion around that issue. In some ways more now than even before because now we do have provisions for residential housing in the standards. So I think some folks are kind of making the assumption that okay now the ADA applies to private -- to housing Title III kind of a thing where that''s not the case. Never was. The housing that these provisions would apply to are generally going to be under Title II. It is going to be housing that is constructed or altered operated by, provided by state or local governments. And in some cases it is going to be -- sometimes their local government entities build housing and then they sell it and there are all kinds of new provisions in the new regulations about that. They have to meet accessibility standards and they have to do all kinds of policy kinds of things to make sure that accessible units go to people with disabilities and so there is a lot of new stuff about residential housing in the new standards. But it doesn''t change the fact that private housing strictly private housing is not covered by the ADA. Never was. And it isn''t now. The ADA comes after the Fair Housing Act. The Fair Housing Act is already in place when the ADA came along. It addresses private housing. It has its own standards and guidelines and so private residential housing communities particularly something like an apartment complex that''s newly constructed is going to have accessible parking spaces. It is going to be required under the Fair Housing Act. But that''s not this. That''s not what we are talking about. Because the ADA doesn''t apply to that.
Right. And then also could you clarify because I see some other questions in here where you might have some application of the ADA in a residential setting such as at the rental office for an apartment complex.
Right. Anything that would meet the definition of a place of public accommodation, for instance, that''s located within a residential facility, that''s going to come under the ADA. So sometimes you have facilities where the ADA covers just one part of it. Like a rental office at a private apartment complex. Because the rental office is a public accommodation it is a place of public accommodation. The general public goes there. So if you have a couple of parking spaces in front that are for people coming to that office, you need to have an accessible space. That''s a great example. There are others. Sometimes private residential communities rent out their meeting room. Or sell memberships to their recreation, the fitness room, or something. And that makes them places of public accommodation. So then they have to make sure they have accessibility to those things that are places of public accommodation even though maybe this whole part of the facility where it is always residential dwelling units -private- that''s not covered by the ADA. The ADA doesn''t touch that. Sometimes you have these large complexes of residential facilities where you have part of it is "independent living. Then you have parts that, you know assisted living and you have a nursing home and this kind of thing and as you move along the assisted living facility, the nursing homes, those things are, those things are medical facility or social service center establishments. They become a different type of facility. So those are some examples as well.
Very good. Did you want to take one more question on the telephone and then finish up with the -
--with your material and then we will take the rest of the time to answer questions. So Jamie if we could have one more question on the telephone if you have one.
The next question comes from Caller 5.
Go ahead with your question. Do you have your phone on mute? If so unmute it. CALLER 5: I had a concern about the volume of Nancy''s voice and I am wondering if she is at a microphone or how that is working because the volume is just so much different from when you take the questions, it is difficult to hear her.
Okay. We will have Nancy speak up and if you want to go ahead and continue with the rest of your presentation Nancy and then we will save questions for the end.
Is it only when we are in the question and answer kind of mode that my voice is hard to hear or is it all the time?
I hadn''t -- this is Peter. I hadn''t noticed any difference. So I am not sure what their connection issue is.
I will try to speak a little bit louder. I have never had anybody tell me my voice is too quiet [laughs] but Ill try to amp it up just a little bit. We just want to touch a little bit on state and local issues and some enforcement issues. This is a big issue. We can''t really go in to a lot of depth or detail in our time frame because we have got a lot of states and territories and a lot of localities and a lot of them have their own codes and standards and in many cases they are more specific and more stringent than the ADA. So when you have what I call dueling standards that apply to a particular project or situation, you have to comply with everything. You have to comply with all codes standards or laws that apply. Whether they are federal, or state or local. So when it comes to these kinds of issues, you have to make sure that you follow the most stringent standard for each provision. And the important thing about this is that you compare these provisions on an element by element kind of basis. You don''t kind of say well, you know, generally the ADA is more stringent than our state law or generally our state law seems to be, you know, more stringent than the ADA. You have to compare each particular provision whether it has to do with application, definition, scoping requirements, technical specifications, whatever it is. And parking is just an area where we have got a lot of very, very specific provisions on a state or local level. Some states have greater scoping requirements than the ADA. One example from our own region is that in Maryland one out of every four accessible spaces, that would be one out of every six needs to be van accessible. So when you build a new parking facility in Maryland that''s what you have to do there. Some states require wider spaces accessible spaces needs to be wider. Florida has a requirement for wider spaces than the ADA. Many have very, very specific requirements on both state and local levels when it comes to signage. Marking the spaces, marking the aisles. States have requirements for the color of the paint. The terms you put on the signs. Some places require that you post the penalty, the fine, how much is the fine going to be if you park here illegally or what''s going to happen. Are you going to be towed. Lots of very specific provisions here. So if you are doing a construction project or an alteration or if you are a business operator and you are removing barriers in your existing parking lot trying to make sure you are providing appropriate accessible parking, you need to make sure that you comply with everything that applies to you. So that''s very, very important. When it comes to enforcement, you know, we have kind of a split here. I mean basic ADA enforcement under Title II and Title III is through the Department of Justice. The U.S. Department of Justice that''s Department of Justice (DOJ) and you can find them online at ADA.gov and you can find all kinds of information about Title II and Title III, the standards, enforcement, filing complaints. So that''s where, you know, you see a business, or a state or local government agency that you think is not complying with ADA provisions, you can take that complaint to that federal level, to DOJ. Likewise under Title I of the ADA if it is an employment situation and there is an employee, a worker with a disability who needs an accessible parking space in the employer''s lot to be able to come to work and the employer says no, I am not going to do that for you even though I could but I don''t want to, that''s something that a compliant could be brought to the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), or in most cases the state fair employment practices agency. You can find information about Title I and the EEOC''s complaint procedures on their website at EEOC.gov. So that''s kind of basic ADA enforcement but when it comes to enforcement on our next slide, number 28, enforcement on the state or local level is a different thing. And we have two kind of big issues in this arena. One is how you get a permit. If you are a person with a disability how do you get a permit to be able to park in an accessible space. Invariably this is on a state level. This is a state issue. The states and the territories all have laws and rules about who is entitled to a parking permit. You generally get it at the DMV wherever you go to get your license. And the rules do vary a bit. You see a lot of similarities among the states and most times it is based on, you know, mobility impairments, some states grant permits to people with vision impairments so they can be -- when people drive them places they can be close to the facility and they don''t have to be walking long distances through parking lots. But it is a state issue, basically. How you get a permit is done on a state level. And then when it comes to enforcement of who is actually parking but with inaccessible spaces that''s also usually a local issue. Whatever the local jurisdiction is, it might be a town, city, county, state, it just depends who has jurisdiction but if somebody illegally parked in an accessible spot, they don''t have a permit, that''s not typically something you call the Department of Justice about. You call the police about that. That''s just basically enforcement of the state''s requirement about who gets to park in that space. Who gets a permit. Because who gets a permit is usually not necessarily the same thing as who has a disability under the ADA. The ADA''s definition of disability is very broad but who needs to park in accessible parking space is kind of a subgroup of those folks. So those are very much state and local enforcement issues and you really have to look to your state or local laws and rules to figure that out. So we are going to stop here now for a final stopping point and see if we have any questions really at this point about anything that we have touched on thus far.
Jamie if you would give phone participants instructions one last time.
To ask a question please press star 1.
And Nancy Im going to ask you to hopefully quick sort of technical requirement questions, one is asked about whether or not two van accessible spaces can share an access aisle and then the other was in a parking lot with four or fewer spaces what size access aisle would be required to be for the accessible space.
Well, under the new standards, you know, access aisles are always the same size. Whether they go with a van space or standard accessible space. The new configuration and access aisle is five feet wide. So if youre going by that, your access aisle is not going to be different whether it is van space or a "car space" accessible space. The facility that has four or fewer spaces obviously the one accessible space that they are going to be required to have is going to have to be a van space. Because one of every six needs to be van accessible. So until you get to the point of having two accessible spaces, you always -- your one and only space is always going to be a van space because that comes first.
Right. There is the exception though correct? If the spaces, 8 foot wide, they can use the eight foot wide access aisle as an exception?
Yes. It is an exception in the new standards if you want to use the old configuration. Now the 1991 configuration the old configuration, you can use it even in new construction. It is allowed but it is allowed as an exception. It is not really the preferred configuration. But yes, you can do that. So if you have got say your facility with four spaces and you got your one accessible space and it is going to be a van space, if you want to make it eight plus eight you can do it that way. But it does need to be a van space. Van space if you have got a larger facility where you have got several van spaces or more than one, sure they can share an aisle. Accessible spaces can always share aisles with the potential exception of we talked a little bit about where you have got angled parking and a van space, the access aisle for an angled van accessible space must be on the passenger side of the vehicle. So sometimes the way that plays out you couldn''t have two van spaces sharing that particular access aisle because it would be on the wrong side of one of the spaces but generally any two spaces can share an aisle.
Okay. Very good. Jamie do we have a question on the telephone?
We have a question from Caller 6. CALLER 6: It is <caller name> asking the question. CALLER 6:: This is <caller name> again. This question is something again near to me. We have the local police would issue tickets if someone is parked illegally in our state. What if a person, there is two van accessible spaces with an access aisle that joins the two. And there are two vans that are parked legally in the van accessible space. And another vehicle whether it is a vehicle with a placard or not parked in the access aisle. This access aisle keeps both ends from being able to load or unload. Also it keeps you from being able it get from the road on to the sidewalk in to the building. And also happens to be the only accessible fire exit from the building. The police say that the access aisle is not part of the accessible space and they will not ticket it. And you are out of luck. What do you do?
Well, I mean it sounds like an issue that you need to address on that local, local level. I mean, you know, I would consider that illegal parking but that''s just me. The access aisle is not a parking space. Nobody can park there whether you have a permit or not. It is not a parking space for anybody. I would consider it to be that if anybody parks there, you know, with or without a permit doesn''t matter. It is illegal parking. But again, you know, getting that enforcement, getting the police to issue the ticket or tow the vehicle, sometimes there are some hurdles associated with that on that local level. And that''s really where you have to address them. Whether it is the fact that the local police misunderstand the law and I mean the state law or the local law or, you know, what''s the real issue is, I don''t know. But, you know, again that''s obviously not supposed to park in the aisle. That''s the whole point of the aisle. CALLER 6: Right.
Jamie can we have our next question on telephone please?
The next question comes from <Caller 7> CALLER 7: Hi this is <Caller name). And I have a question. I know sometimes there is spaces that say van only. But are they allowed to make all their spots like van only? What does that mean for somebody that is in a car that wants to park?
Well, again that must be a local issue because the ADA does not -- you know, van spaces are not supposed to be designated for van only. They are supposed to be designated as van accessible. They are not the intention is not to restrict the use of that space to van. It is just simply have it available for vans. Sometimes I think that from a design perspective what I tend to notice is that the van spaces are usually the first ones. The closest ones to the entrance. So people take them first. It is just human nature. The first one they come to that''s available is people take it. Why wouldn''t they? But I think from design perspective there is nothing that says that the van space has to be closer than the other accessible spaces. Sometimes I think just kind of reversing that approach and putting the van spaces last or, you know, kind of gets at that a little bit but that''s -- there is nothing about the ADA that requires that. It is just kind of a design issue. But the ADA van spaces are not intended to be restricted. CALLER 7: Okay.
Right. And I know that -- there are some people, you know, difficult finding van accessible spaces, but hopefully the increase in scoping in the 2010 standards. Jamie can you drop that line? Is that line open? Thanks. That the increased scoping is going to over time result in more van accessible spaces. A couple of scoping questions for you Nancy in the chat area. One is a facility that is served by four separate parking lots, and different entrances but the question is do they -- in terms of counting the number of required spaces how would you treat that? And then another somewhat similar: two different parking spaces, one in front of the building, one in the back of the building separated by a vehicular way both serving the facility. How would you go about determining the required number of accessible spaces?
Okay. Well, I hope I followed that. But where you have separate lots, I mean there is no question, they are separate, you need to scope them separately. So if you have got one lot, you know, with 100 spaces and then another lot that''s separate, down the block, or something, and that''s got 100 spaces in that lot, you need four spaces in one lot, and four spaces in the other lot and now you can combine them, you can take the four spaces from the far away lot and locate them in the near lot but you are then going to have a total of eight accessible spaces. And you are going to have two of them are going to be van spaces because you needed one for each lot. Now to kind -- the flipside of that is if you have got -- whether it is multiple lots or one lot, that serve different entrances, or even different buildings, then you don''t want to necessarily cluster your accessible spots because what you need to do is you need to look at where are people going from these parking facilities. Do people -- are they going in to different occupancies, for instance, different stores in a mall or different offices or, you know, the front entrance versus the back entrance. What is in the front, what is in the back? Where are people going? So there are times when you want your accessible spaces to be dispersed because people are going different places. They are going to different buildings or different entrances. So you want to disperse your spaces. Other times everyone is going the same door. You want all your spaces from all the lots that serve that building to be located as close as possible to that one door. Does that help?
Yes, that makes sense. Jamie do we have another question from telephone participants?
The next question comes from Caller 8. CALLER 8: This is <Caller name> again and I have three questions. First one should be very simple. Is my accessible license plate and/or accessible placard for Indiana valid in every other state?
Yes. CALLER 8: Okay.
You were right it was quick and easy. - laughter. CALLER 8: I just wanted to get that out there. Next question, as Title III applies to the 12 types of public accommodations, how does this apply to say a vacation rental home on like Lake Michigan or something like that that''s privately owned, that is being rented out to people throughout the summer?
Title III may or may not apply to that. There is a lot of stuff in the new regulations, not a lot of new requirements about the definition of a place of lodging. And I would kind of point you to that. The department has -- did a lot of work around this issue related to things like time shares and condos, hotels, quote/unquote. It really kind of comes down to what is it really operating like? Is it operating like a hotel? Is it kind of you rent a room or a unit or something on a short term basis? You make a reservation. There is maid service. These are the things that we need to look at to see are we really looking at a place of lodging which falls squarely under Title III or are we not. And that''s the real issue there. Because if it is not, if it is not covered by Title III, then it is just not. CALLER 8: Would it be the Department of Justice that would make that determination?
Yes. Ultimately. They have a lot of material and new regulation and guidance and discussion about the factors to consider what to look for, and there are a lot of interesting and challenging facilities and kind of hybrids and things out there, facilities that are mixed use condo communities where they are partly operated by a management company, very much like a hotel and then other parts are individually owned units that may or may not be rented out and on what basis and through a management company and on their own and it can get to be pretty complicated and I don''t think that we are going to be able to delve in to that in too much depth. It is possible that a time share or something like that, if it is kind of looking like a hotel to you and it seems to operate like a hotel, it may essentially be a hotel. CALLER 8: And then my third question and this is kind of a local situation, here in Indianapolis there is a business that''s open until I believe 2 a.m. It has an accessible meter on the street right out front. But as of 11 p.m. there is a local statute that there is no parking on that street and any vehicles will be towed. So it prevents me from being able to utilize that business the length of time it is open. What''s -- what is out there? Accessible parking for the business with a disability or the sign that says no parking on the street after 11 p.m.?
I am assuming that nobody can park on the street. It is not discriminatory. Nobody can park in any spot, is that right? CALLER 8: Yes, yes. That''s my concern is that it forces people with disabilities who can''t walk to other parking locations to have to leave an open -- a business that''s open longer than that parking code.
Again I am not sure if there is a real connection between the business and the on street parking. CALLER 8: There is not.
Yes. If the street is really the town''s or something, then the business probably has no control over that. And if the ordinance says no parking on the street after a certain time, usually those kinds of things are for some kind of a reason, street sweeper is going to come along or the garbage truck or whatever. I understand what you are saying. Some things like that kind of affect people with disability the more than others who may have other options but I am not sure that there is anything kind of straight ADA-wise because you are talking about a situation where there is no parking. There is no parking for anybody. CALLER 8: Right.
Thanks for your question <Caller name>. We are getting close to the bottom of the hour here. Nancy, if you could just -- I saw some questions in the chat area. Can you clarify the application of the ADA with regards to airports and, you know, where the ADA would apply in terms of parking passenger loading zones and the like versus the air carrier''s access act which applies to the air carrier themselves, where they might have a state and local government or even a private entity that actually operates the airport itself.
Right. As we touched a little bit when we first talked about Title III, private airports are not covered by Title III. As far as they are not public accommodations they are not places of public accommodation. They are just not. They are exempt from that. They can be considered commercial facilities. But that''s Title III. Title II it is a little bit different because Title II doesn''t have 12 types or anything. It is much broader. Most airports, I shouldn''t say most. A lot of airports are operated by state and local governments and those would be covered by Title II.
Right and even in the private airports you may have Title III entities within there. You may have a sandwich or a coffee shop.
Yes, you often have places of public accommodation within an airport but the airport itself isn''t a public accommodation. Just because the ADA makes a wide berth around air travel and pretty much everything with it on the private side.
On the private side. So I think that clears things up for people. For those of you and we had lots of questions I am sure we could go -- be here for another 90 minutes. So if you did not have an opportunity to ask your question, if your question was not asked, please do not hesitate to contact your regional ADA center by calling 800-949-4232 to get your questions answered. I would like to tell you that the archive of today''s session will be available in two weeks. And you can find that archive at the ADA audio website, www.ada-audio.org and select the audio conference link once you get to that page. Also on that page you will find information about our next session coming up on July the 17th where we will get an update from the Department of Justice as we are approaching the 22nd anniversary of the signing of the Americans with Disabilities Act. So you will get information about registering for that session on July the 17th. I would like to thank Nancy very much for an excellent presentation with a lot of information and lots of questions coming in. So appreciate the Nancy''s time in preparing her presentation and then being with us here today to share her information. I would also like to thank all of our participants for joining us today. We appreciate that you join us. We also appreciate that when you complete your evaluations of the session. It helps us target future sessions to see what areas of interest where additional information is necessary. So completing those evaluations helps us greatly. If you have any questions regarding the ADA audio conference, you can contact us at 877-232-1990 V/TTY. So I want to thank all of you once again and hope that all of you have a wonderful afternoon or the remainder of your morning. To disconnect simply hang up your phones if you are in the webinar room, simply close your Internet browser to disconnect. Thanks and have a great day.